Thank you for your comment. So you would suggest "Capra ibex (Alpine ibex), male walking, and Swiss Alps in background" instead of "Capra ibex (Alpine ibex), male walking, at Creux du Van with snow and Swiss Alps in background" ? The thing is that almost the whole background is the Creux du Van itself and that the Swiss Alps is only the small portion on the top right with the far away mountains. So I think it would be more relevant to remove the Swiss Alps instead of the Creux du Van don't you think ? I just edited it that way, tell me if it works for you. Giles Laurent (talk) 13:16, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Alpine ibex lives in the Alps of Europe, I don't think that any particular area is important to the scope but the mountain habitat is. The background is mostly unsharp and it is not important for the scope. I think that the scope should be more like a image search query (Capra ibex (Alpine ibex), male walking in the mountains) than a detailed description of the image. --Thi (talk) 15:39, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here is the thing : the Creux du Van is not part of the Alps of Europe according to this map and as proven by this photograph, the Alpine ibex don't only lives in the Swiss alps. The Creux du Van is actually not that high in altitude, only 1440m in average. The Creux du Van background is immediately recognizable for any person that knows this place and this image illustrates well the male Alpine ibex that can be seen there (there is only one old male there according to my knowledge but many females) as almost all of the background is it. The place is very famous and 200'000 persons visit the Creux du Van every year with probably 80 to 90% in the summer and ibex are often seen there by people because they are a species that is not afraid of humans. So I think the picture illustrates well the male Alpine ibex that lives there for people that would do like a image search query of the ibex that lives there. Also, there is only a few days/weeks every year that you can have snow there as it is not very high in altitude and also because winters are becoming warmer and warmer lately. In the light of these elements, what do you suggest to use as scope, don't you think the new one would fit? Giles Laurent (talk) 15:56, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support The scope is good since Creux du Van is a well-known natural attraction, the picture illustrates the animal and the nature reservation area. --Thi (talk) 16:31, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reluctantly Oppose because IMHO Thi has it right in commenting that "at Creux du Van with snow" is not necessary in the scope. The Capra ibex species is only found in European alpine environments and adding Creux du Van as a geographical location in the scope is extra description that does not add to the uniqueness or value of the image. The subject appears to be an adult male. I am undecided that walking is unique sub-scope behavior. In terms of comparable images of an adult male Capra ibex, this one is of good quality, has better lighting and better fills the frame. --GRDN711 (talk) 00:28, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Creux du Van is not an alpine environment! It is at an average altitude of only 1440m, below tree line, and is moreover not situated in the Alps of Europe. For this simple reason, this image already differs from the common alpine ibex that would be photographed in the alps and adds uniqueness and value to the image. The Creux du Van is also a very well-known place with hundreds of thousands of hikers that visit it every year (200'000). Finally, the image you linked, while being taken at the Creux du Van, doesn't allow the viewer to know it was taken there at the Creux du Van because it is not recognizable in the background. Giles Laurent (talk) 14:02, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment You may not agree with this perspective but let me point out a statement in COM:VIS – “Note that scope is not a simple description of your image. Rather, it defines a generic field or category within which your image is the most valuable example.”
The image being nominated is a male Capra ibex (Alpine ibex). Whether Creux du Van meets some definition of an European alpine environment is irrelevant. The ibex seems to think Crux du Vin is sufficiently alpine enough to live there and that’s good enough. The same species without location distinction can be found in the German, Swiss and Italian Alps.
The Crux du Vin location just adds an extra wordy description that makes the scope too narrow as a generic field or category and attempts to make this particular image more unique (and therefore valuable) than it is. --GRDN711 (talk) 17:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is a scope for every angle of a church. There is a scope for every painting/object in that church. I don't see why there couldn't be a scope for an Alpine Ibex photographed at Creux du Van as it is generic enough to have many pictures in that category. Almost all articles about the Creux du Van mention the ibexes that can be found there. Many people go there in hope to see them. This picture is valuable to them. There even is a specific category that was created specifically for ibex in that place, thereby proving that it is generic enough. Out of all the ibex photographed in Creux du Van, this is in my opinion the most valuable one as it shows in a very recognizable manner the Creux du Van in its background. -- Giles Laurent (talk) 17:27, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
